Lenny, Pam and David,

I agree that many adults are anxious about math, and it often has to do
with tests. Lenny, your strategy of practicing for the test situation
until some of the fear subsided seems to have worked well.

At the same time, I don't think we should only be concerned with anxiety
that exhibits itself in test situations. As Pam pointed out, feeling
confident and competent has much to do with building the kinds of
dispositions that enable people to move forward. I want learners to be
able to pass tests when they need to, but I also want them to really
believe they can learn math, they can use math when they need to, that
they know that it's pretty normal to get stuck sometimes, but that they
can come back later, with fresh eyes, to something they don't understand.

Many learners have told me that they thought right answers and productive
strategies just popped into other people's heads, but that this didn't
happen for them (back to the inherited math gene...). Part of the
productive disposition component that is a part of becoming competent in
math/numeracy involves seeing oneself as an active participant, who
sometimes goes down wrong paths, but is then willing to try something else
rather than say, "I can't do it."

I agree with Pam that gaining understanding and ownership is key. I think
it's kind of like the self-esteem thing. One person can't "give" someone
else self esteem, but it develops as the person sees him/herself as
competent and able.

Lynda

Lenny wrote:

> Bravo David,

>

> I've been reading strands all day and have been quietly interested in the

> discussions, but I keep going back to my eternal concern that always lies

> at

> the bottom of everyone's list - math anxiety, or in the latest terms -

> “productive disposition” - attitude is the older term that went along with

> knowledge and skills back when I was struggling with my dissertation.

>

> I have been a teacher and a learner of mathematics for a long time in

> many,

> many different environments and levels, and I have been working in an

> adult

> literacy program for the past three years. My single greatest frustration

> has always been dealing with students' extreme anxiety with mathematics

> tests. I am on the verge of seriously exploring hypnotism as an option.

>

> One quick example - I recently had a student come to me who had passed all

> the GED tests except Math and failed it twice. Now this student was told

> she

> had to have her GED by December, or she would be fired. GED Testing

> Services

> only allows three tests in one subject to be taken in one calendar year in

> the USA(what is the deal with that?) - do you see some anxiety might be

> occurring here on the part of the student? We did some intensive work,

> took

> five official practice tests and passed them all (480 average) and she

> finally went and passed by 40 points.

>

> Until everyone gives attitudes some consideration over the emphasis on

> knowledge and skills, I fear we will get the same results we have always

> gotten - sound familiar?

>

> Lenny Lindstrom

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>

> To: <specialtopics at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 5:58 PM

> Subject: [SpecialTopics 687] Re: "numeracy" vs. "mathematical literacy"

>

>

> Lynda, Mary Jane and Myrna,

>

> Let's look at this question from the perspective of potential adult

> learners.  I have talked to graduates from adult literacy programs --

> adult learner leaders -- who object to the term "literacy" because,

> they said, they could read just fine.  They needed help, they said,

> with math.  They complained that the terms "literacy", or "reading",

> as a name for a program (e.g. "The Literacy Project" "the Adult

> Reading Program" and similar names) obscures that the program offers

> numeracy ("math" as students call this) .  One woman said she went

> for years without getting help because she didn't know adult basic

> math classes existed in her town, and the program that could help her

> was just a few blocks away from where she lived! So although there

> may be good reasons for using "numeracy" among practitioners, let's

> hope that "math" appears alongside in the program promotional

> materials so adult learners can find the services they need.

>

> I am reminded of a discussion that I was in recently about what to

> name a new corporate online workplace ESOL program. One of the

> seasoned teachers in the room said, it doesn't really matter as long

> as the name begins with "English" because that's what the students

> will call it, "English class". And we all agreed.

>

> I have some more questions about the study:

>

> 7. On Page 27, you write: “The mathematical demands of today’s

> technological society are different from those of earlier decades.

> Some concepts have become more important for coping with the demands

> while others are not as critical as they once were.” What are the

> concepts that are not as important now, and what concepts are more

> important now? (And thanks, Tom Macdonald, for raising the

> observations about the relationships of learning technology to

> learning numeracy.)

>

> 8. As I read the descriptions of “problem solving” on pages 34-35,

> the process resonates with a process that I believe is used by some

> visual artists. A sculptor, for example, has to “organize the

> information from the creative problem into a form or model that

> enables the artist to “see” the underlying structure of the problem.

> To do that, often sculptors make drawings, look for patterns, and

> make models. Has there been research on mathematical or numeracy

> problem solving and artistic problem solving and how these thinking

> processes might effectively be integrated and strengthen each other

> in K-12 schools or adult learning programs? (Thanks, Susan Kidd, for

> raising the issue of the relationship of numeracy to the arts.)

>

> 9. At the end of the paper you write about the importance of a

> “productive disposition” that is, learners having beliefs in their

> ability to do numeracy and in its usefulness to them, and having

> positive feelings about numeracy. Is this, the affective part of this

> component, more important than the other components?  Does it need to

> be addressed first, or is it addressed through a teaching and

> learning process that weaves together all components equally? Can

> this weaving process take place for learners who have very negative

> feelings about their ability to do numeracy?

>

> David J. Rosen

> Apecial Topics Discussion Leader

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

> On Sep 18, 2007, at 8:30 PM, Lynda Ginsburg wrote:

>

>> Hi everyone, including the far flung ones!

>>

>> To me, I'm also not sure there's a meaningful difference between

>> "numeracy" and "mathematical literacy" because we can really define

>> them

>> as we like.

>>

>> But, I see an important political issue here in the US in regards

>> to the

>> terminology. A while back there was a policy document called something

>> like "From the margins to the mainstream." The primary focus of the

>> policy

>> document was literacy, and there was a sentence stating something

>> to the

>> effect that math was subsumed under "literacy." (The Adult Numeracy

>> Network actually responded to this document protesting this limited

>> view

>> of mathematical learning.)

>>

>> By talking about "mathematical literacy" within the adult basic ed

>> environment, we are using the "L word" and thus continuing to relegate

>> math/numeracy instruction and learning to a second tier level,

>> subsumed

>> under the literacy umbrella. Since the field here has historically

>> been so

>> focused on literacy, there has been limited attention to and

>> recognition

>> that teaching and learning math is really very different from

>> teaching and

>> learning reading/writing.

>>

>> Those of you from other countries have somehow managed to elevate

>> "numeracy" to a relatively equal status with literacy. We couldn't

>> convince COABE to title their new journal "Adult Literacy and

>> Numeracy,"

>> tho the Aussies have one with both words in the title.

>>

>> So, I vote for the term Numeracy rather than Mathematical Literacy.

>>

>> I guess this counts as a rant.

>>

>> Best,

>> Lynda

>>

>> --

>> Lynda Ginsburg

>> Senior Research Associate, MetroMath

>> Rutgers University

>> tel: 732-445-1409

>> -------------------------------

>

>

>

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-- 
Lynda Ginsburg
Senior Research Associate, MetroMath
Rutgers University
tel: 732-445-1409