Lynda, Mary Jane and Myrna,

Let's look at this question from the perspective of potential adult  
learners.  I have talked to graduates from adult literacy programs --  
adult learner leaders -- who object to the term "literacy" because,  
they said, they could read just fine.  They needed help, they said,  
with math.  They complained that the terms "literacy", or "reading",  
as a name for a program (e.g. "The Literacy Project" "the Adult  
Reading Program" and similar names) obscures that the program offers  
numeracy ("math" as students call this) .  One woman said she went  
for years without getting help because she didn't know adult basic  
math classes existed in her town, and the program that could help her  
was just a few blocks away from where she lived! So although there  
may be good reasons for using "numeracy" among practitioners, let's  
hope that "math" appears alongside in the program promotional  
materials so adult learners can find the services they need.

I am reminded of a discussion that I was in recently about what to  
name a new corporate online workplace ESOL program. One of the  
seasoned teachers in the room said, it doesn't really matter as long  
as the name begins with "English" because that's what the students  
will call it, "English class". And we all agreed.

I have some more questions about the study:

7. On Page 27, you write: “The mathematical demands of today’s  
technological society are different from those of earlier decades.  
Some concepts have become more important for coping with the demands  
while others are not as critical as they once were.” What are the  
concepts that are not as important now, and what concepts are more  
important now? (And thanks, Tom Macdonald, for raising the  
observations about the relationships of learning technology to  
learning numeracy.)

8. As I read the descriptions of “problem solving” on pages 34-35,  
the process resonates with a process that I believe is used by some  
visual artists. A sculptor, for example, has to “organize the  
information from the creative problem into a form or model that  
enables the artist to “see” the underlying structure of the problem.  
To do that, often sculptors make drawings, look for patterns, and  
make models. Has there been research on mathematical or numeracy  
problem solving and artistic problem solving and how these thinking  
processes might effectively be integrated and strengthen each other  
in K-12 schools or adult learning programs? (Thanks, Susan Kidd, for  
raising the issue of the relationship of numeracy to the arts.)

9. At the end of the paper you write about the importance of a  
“productive disposition” that is, learners having beliefs in their  
ability to do numeracy and in its usefulness to them, and having  
positive feelings about numeracy. Is this, the affective part of this  
component, more important than the other components?  Does it need to  
be addressed first, or is it addressed through a teaching and  
learning process that weaves together all components equally? Can  
this weaving process take place for learners who have very negative  
feelings about their ability to do numeracy?

David J. Rosen
Apecial Topics Discussion Leader
djrosen at comcast.net


On Sep 18, 2007, at 8:30 PM, Lynda Ginsburg wrote:


> Hi everyone, including the far flung ones!

>

> To me, I'm also not sure there's a meaningful difference between

> "numeracy" and "mathematical literacy" because we can really define  

> them

> as we like.

>

> But, I see an important political issue here in the US in regards  

> to the

> terminology. A while back there was a policy document called something

> like "From the margins to the mainstream." The primary focus of the  

> policy

> document was literacy, and there was a sentence stating something  

> to the

> effect that math was subsumed under "literacy." (The Adult Numeracy

> Network actually responded to this document protesting this limited  

> view

> of mathematical learning.)

>

> By talking about "mathematical literacy" within the adult basic ed

> environment, we are using the "L word" and thus continuing to relegate

> math/numeracy instruction and learning to a second tier level,  

> subsumed

> under the literacy umbrella. Since the field here has historically  

> been so

> focused on literacy, there has been limited attention to and  

> recognition

> that teaching and learning math is really very different from  

> teaching and

> learning reading/writing.

>

> Those of you from other countries have somehow managed to elevate

> "numeracy" to a relatively equal status with literacy. We couldn't

> convince COABE to title their new journal "Adult Literacy and  

> Numeracy,"

> tho the Aussies have one with both words in the title.

>

> So, I vote for the term Numeracy rather than Mathematical Literacy.

>

> I guess this counts as a rant.

>

> Best,

> Lynda

>

> -- 

> Lynda Ginsburg

> Senior Research Associate, MetroMath

> Rutgers University

> tel: 732-445-1409

> -------------------------------