Hi from Down Under Louise, Mary Jane, Lynda, David and all,
 
I agree with much of what people have said to date about numeracy and math - and certainly find it amazing that Word et al's Spell checkers don't recognise numeracy yet (or still!). I too find the use of a range of manipulatives from blocks and fraction circles for demonstrating concepts through to dice etc for games through to measuring instruments and real life materials required for activities such as cooking and building a crucial part of effective teaching. 
 
A few comments - I will try to not rave on for too long, which I am capable of doing! Plus it's very late at night down here in Melbourne.
 
After many many years of working with adults it has been interesting over the last few years to re-enter working in secondary schools and colleges to work with (mainly) math teachers of disengaged youth. Plus I spent five years on the Council/Board of our State Math Teacher Association - I think many of them just thought I was a bit of a ratbag/oddball! It has really brought home to me how the normal and accepted way of teaching math is irrelevent and disenfranchising (and many other negative things) for so many "normal" or regular students who end up seeing math as something they cannot do, hate and don't want to engage with as adults. And their teachers don't actually know how to teach numeracy - they only know how to teach math. But the success stories I now hear with teachers engaging their 15-17 yo learners with numeracy instead of math brings tears to my eyes and gives me strength to keep pushing the numeracy barrow.
 
On another tack, I have now done enough work in different workplaces to realise that math IS used extensively in so many jobs - yet the common belief (including by so many math teachers or academics) is that we never use math in our daily lives - we need to teach formal maths to everyone at school just in case we ever become research scientists, engineers, statisticians, etc or dare I say it, math teachers! Some argue we (should) teach math for the beauty of it (or for the discipline?) - but for how many students is it beautiful!? But I now know, for example, that to lay asphalt on roads you need quite sophisticated and accurate math understanding, skills and abililities - but do we ever hear about what those skills are and that all students should be able to apply their math skills in such contexts? That's numeracy and it can be very rich and rewarding. I think we (and by that I mean the wider math and educaton feilds) need to promote how important and vital a broad and thorough understanding of math (and that includes algebra) is to EVERYONE's lives - it's not just for the rocket scientists. And hopefully some of the research that might come out of the ALLS data about the importance of numeracy vs literacy may give us ammunition along those lines too. And what about all the wonderful and rich math in sport and games. I really like Forman & Steen's little publication Beyond Eighth Grade as a sensible and constructive argument for teaching numeracy (or as they called it functional math) and how rich (and engaging) it can be. Read it if you haven't already.
 
So you can see I strongly believe numeracy as a concept/construct can be a key argument in how we might communicate and argue about how math can and should be taught so that it engages the majority of learners not just a priviledged few. 
 
And one little thing - I must admit I am not sure I endorse Mary Jane's statement that numeracy = mathematical literacy. To me the latter can mean an interest in the words and communication about math and not the DOING and UNDERSTANDING of the math. That's what numeracy is about - making meaning of math - building those bridges between math and the real world. I actually see myself as a math educator with numeracy being the vehicle by which I teach math. Similarly the Venn diagram can downplay the importance of numeracy - I stir the pot by drawing a Venn diagram with numeracy being a nice big circle and math being a circle smaller than numeracy with most of math being inside the numeracy circle!
 
I could also happily argue that young children also have a numeracy that they engage with in their lives - children don't come to school or pre-school as empty vessels - they too have a wealth of real life experiences with the real world. And in fact many primary school teachers succesfully link their math teaching to the real world and also don't have the fear that secondary school math teachers seem to have about using manipulatives.
 
Enough! I must head off to bed - I look forward to reading more over the rest of this week.
 
Cheers
 
Dave Tout
 

________________________________

From: specialtopics-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Mary Jane Schmitt
Sent: Tue 18/09/2007 22:38
To: specialtopics at nifl.gov
Subject: [SpecialTopics 667] Re: International Discussion Endsand Numeracy Discussion Begins



Hi Louise 

Yes, current versions of spell-check reject the word numeracy, even though its usage is becoming more common. When we used it in our papers, we generally meant adult numeracy. Early childhood numeracy* is different because numeracy does depend upon context - and age can be thought of as a contextual  and a cognitive factor. The math appropriate for a 3-year old to learn, understand, and be able to do is different for an adult. On the other hand, all age groups are included when being numerate is defined as having `the ability and inclination to use mathematics effectively in our lives--at home, at work, and in the community' (New Zealand Ministry of Education, 2001).   

As far as far as the relationship among mathematics, literacy, and numeracy, some  use a Venn diagram to illustrate numeracy as the intersection of mathematics and literacy - that might be a better analogy than a bridge between math and literacy. In fact, we see the term "mathematical literacy" to be synonymous with numeracy. 

* An aside, as we meant to focus on adult numeracy during this discussion:  There is a rich body of research on early numeracy development, even in infants. I am fascinated by studies that have shown 6-month olds to be aware of subtraction errors (as evidenced by extended gaze), or the idea that babies can subitize, (recognize small quantities without counting) .  Australia and New Zealand have early numeracy educational initiatives that are very interesting. I think Dave Tout and I stand corrected on the K-12 designation for "school math before reaching adulthood."  Even though many of the documents we referred to focused on K-12, we could have included pre-K. 

Take care, 
Mary Jane 


Mary Jane Schmitt 
TERC 
2067 Massachusetts Avenue 
Cambridge, MA  02140 
mary_jane_schmitt at terc.edu 
www.adultnumeracy at terc.edu 




Louise Wiener <lwiener at llfinc.org> 
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09/17/07 10:02 PM 
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[SpecialTopics 663] Re: International Discussion Ends and        Numeracy        Discussion Begins	

		




Dear David,

I found the Tout and Schmitt chapter particularly invigorating and challenging and hope Dr. Schmitt might comment on two thoughts for starters.  

I was surprised at the frequent reference to K-12 with almost no reference to pre-K.  I first became familiar with the term numeracy in the context of Head Start standards. Is there research on numeracy in the early childhood field - or has the name alone been adopted?

I was struck, too, by the reference to numeracy as the bridge between mathematics and the real world. I see it  equally as the bridge between mathematics and literacy because  it captures (builds on?) the language and concepts of math as contrasted with the pure computation of math.

You will note that at least my spell-check rejects "numeracy" as a valid word.  Perhaps we should start by lobbying there!

Thank you, Louise 
-- 
Louise W. Wiener, Chairman of the Board
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   2701 12th Street NE
   Washington, DC 20018

   Mobile Phone: 301-213-6516
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 On 9/15/07 8:10 AM, "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net> wrote:

Special Topics Colleagues,

I want to thank our guests for the topic:  What International Literacy Programs Offer Programs in the U.S. : Brenda Bell, Pamela Civins, Dr. John Comings, Barbara Garner, Dr. Erik Jacobson, Juliet Merrifield, and Dr. Ujwala Samant. I know we have only scratched the surfaces of several issues here in this one short week, but the discussion has been tantalizing.  I also want to thank Oxfam for making the book Developing Adult Literacy: Approaches to planning, implementing and delivering literacy initiatives by Juliet Merrifield Juliet McCaffrey, and Juliet Millican available by download free for this discussion. It will be available in hard copy on September 30, 2007.

This marks the end of the international literacy discussion, for now at least. 

On Monday we will begin a new discussion on The Components of Numeracy with Mary Jane Schmitt, Myrna Manly and Dr. Lynda Ginsburg, an occasional paper published by the National Center for the Study of Adult Learning and Literacy.

For more information, and a short list of readings to prepare for the discussion please go to:

http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/specialtopics/07numeracy.html <http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/specialtopics/07numeracy.html> 

or the short Web address:

http://tinyurl.com/yvo6hf <http://tinyurl.com/yvo6hf> 

Please e-mail your questions for our numeracy guest experts to specialtopics at nifl.gov

Your colleagues who may wish to join this discussion can subscribe by going to:

http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics <http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/specialtopics> 

After they complete a simple registration form (30 seconds) they will receive an email asking them to confirm that they wish to subscribe. They should Immediately reply to the email to complete their subscription. After the discussion ends they can unsubscribe from the same Web address, or stay on for the next discussion.

David J. Rosen
Special Topics Discussion Moderator
djrosen at comcast.net






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