This comment about students "counting" might just be a factor. In CT, we're
told that we have a "numerator" and a "denominator", the denominator being
the total number of students, and the numerator being those who start a
program, are pre- post- /tested. Obviously, the more students in the
denominator who don't do these things, the "worse" the outcomes. In LVA we
used to give hours to students just for testing, then realized as waiting
lists became longer and placement less certain, let alone the student
follow-through, that this practice was hurting our data.
Warmest Regards,
Bonnie Odiorne Ph.D
ESL Instructor, Teikyo Post University



-----Original Message-----
From: nifl-pli-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-pli-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Marcia.Hess at state.sd.us
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 5:39 PM
To: nifl-pli at nifl.gov
Subject: [NIFL-PLI] RE: RE: Using NRS Data for Program Improvement



RE: Sheri Rogers response to declining numbers

In our state, when I came to my position 3 years ago, the numbers reported
as served came from unclean data.  We often had programs who reported anyone
that walked through the door not just the ones with 12 hours, they may have
taken only computer classes (as we heard some other places were counting),
and often there was no standard testing.

I came to this conclusion when, after two years of data collection on a new
data system. We have the same number coming through the door but far fewer
are counting.

Sometimes teachers don't feel prepared to teach the full spectrum of reading
skills from literacy levels to advanced/critical thinking.  Adult Education
teachers come from such a varied background that we cannot expect everyone
to be a reading expert.  We can, however, offer training to assist.

Often, students are not greeted with instant success and shy aware before
they get engaged with the right person/tutor/teacher that may help them
along.  Hopelessness fills their heart so quickly.  There is a delicate
balance we walk in helping our students gain skills and confidence.

If the NRS data tells you that your Intermediate ABE and Literacy level
students are not sticking in your program, then it is up to each program to
find out why and create what is needed.  I have met excellent teachers in
ABE over the years but some of them I would not have returned to when I was
a non-reader or slow reader.  Their "attitude" was what I would read first.
It was always body language and the silent cues that let me know if I was
really welcome.

I don't think we have fewer students in our state.  I think we are not
retaining them for a variety of reasons.  I also don't think it is because
of testing that they don't return.
Marcia

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:01:08 -0500
From: "Sheri Rogers" <rogerss at apsd.k12.ar.us>
Subject: RE: [NIFL-PLI] RE: Using NRS Data for Program Improvement
To: <nifl-pli at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <s0b70e0a.023 at apsd.k12.ar.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

In reading the discussion thread on the decline of reported adult
learners, taxpayers and the National Reporting System, let me put in my
.02 worth (where did that "cents" sign on my keyboard go, anyway?)

The software used to capture data for our state is difficult to use. I
say that because I can't come right out and say *it doesn't work*. When
we put in data, the reports generated do not reflect the real deal-
often because I haven't gone to some buried screen and clicked OK. I ran
three different reports on enrolled students and came up with three
different totals on number of enrolled learners-a range from 161 to 254.
Not just a couple of learners. Many programs in our state are using
additional methods of capturing local data for program improvement with
much better success. But those numbers don't "count" because our
management system numbers aren't generating the same counts. We are not
a large state, but could this account for a decline in national numbers?
Maybe another small way the learners are being "lost"

SR




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