My favorite topic, religion!

If someone hits me over the head with religion, I get resentful, but  
the  discussion so far seems to be a general expression
of  good will, from which we can  derive much of educational value.

In much of this country respect towards people's religion is the  
norm, and deep questioning, in my experience, does not happen.
  So a general Moslem blessing seems inoffensive to me. There is a  
very delicate line here, though.  If I  am an agnostic or atheist
  I might be  offended if someone"s assumption that of course I am a  
Believer.  In my view religious tolerance also includes tolerance
  and respect for those who do not have belief in a creator.

Different school systems have different holiday observances, not only
to be respectful, but to acknowledge that many students would not  
show up at school on the special religious day.

Andrea

On Sep 4, 2008, at 7:02 PM, Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt wrote:


> Since this is a diversity list, I don't see the problem.  No one is  

> asking anyone to be Muslim or any other member of a church or  

> religion.  To me, it's like saying, "Happy Holidays" or "Merry  

> Christmas" or whatever else.

>

> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Elaine Zundl <ezundl at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is my first post on this discussion board, even though I joined

> at the Women in Literacy conference some time ago.

>

> This impasse is representative of the conflict between what a

> liberal-humanist assumption of religious doctrine entails as opposed

> to the perception of someone who has a Muslim worldview. Religion and

> social theorists like Talal Asad and Edward Said have illuminated the

> ways in which imposing an American or Western European enlightenment

> view about the role of religiosity as hindering the pursuit of freedom

> has led us to believe that we should enforce a division between the

> private (religion) and public. There are many ways that this position

> infringes on the freedom of deeply religious groups in America and

> codes them as irrational and backward.

>

> I wonder, Kearney, when you say that Ochieng's message is not 'simply

> one of good will' and his words may (for Ochieng) be rooted in the

> tradition of a religious text, why it is disruptive to the business of

> this listserv and the discussion of the diversity of our students. Do

> these words and concepts have some kind of viral power that will seize

> our consciousness and hinder our ability to be objective? I work in a

> literacy program in New York City that is able to serve and reach a

> greater immigrant population because we have been sensitive to a

> Muslim ethic and belief.

>

> If one finds a prayer or a religious text threatening to the ideals of

> diversity I would question how 'diverse' we can actually be?

>

> ~Elaine Zundl

> Gender Studies

> Rutgers University

>

>

> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Kearney Lykins  

> <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Ujwala, et al,

> >

> > The reason I perceived Ochieng's post as a circulation of religious

> > doctrine is because it is a circulation of religious doctrine.

> > Sure, it is warm and friendly, and its congenial tone is well  

> taken. But its

> > content is another matter. It is patently doctrinaire.

> >

> > See for example the term ibadah, which Ochieng translates as  

> "devotion", but

> > is more commonly translated to mean "submission" or "worship."  The

> > reference to "the night of Qadr" is another point of doctrine,  

> referring to

> > the night that Allah revealed the Quran to Muhammad.  Ummah is  

> the community

> > of Muslim believers. As such Ochieng's message is not a casual,

> > ecumenical greeting of goodwill.

> >

> > Ochieng wishes that Allah grant us ibadah during the night of  

> Qadr, and make

> > us the best ummah. This certainly constitues a statement of  

> religious

> > doctrine.

> >

> > I am not opposed to learning about religions. I am simply  

> questioning

> > whether nifl.gov is the appropriate vehicle to communicate in the  

> manner

> > Ochieng did. If it is, we should be prepared for more of the  

> same, from all

> > quarters.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > Kearney

> >

> >

> >

> > Kearney_Lykins at yahoo.com

> >

> > C: (614) 787-2202

> > H: (614) 760-1407

> >

> > ----- Original Message ----

> > From: Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>

> > To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List <diversity at nifl.gov>

> > Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2008 7:09:35 AM

> > Subject: [Diversity 141] Re: Ramadhan Kareem

> >

> > I am surprised by this comment. All schools have

> > Christmas holidays, Easter break... surely those are

> > religious holidays? In elementary school, my son

> > brought home St. Patrick's day crafts, and of course

> > Father Christmas was a theme as well. Separation of

> > church and state in state schools is.... non existent.

> > In my son's school holiday list, Yom Kippur is listed

> > as a holiday. And I can assure you we have a strong

> > Hindu and Muslim population. Wishing someone for their

> > religious holidays (and we have seen Merry Christmas

> > being wished prior to those holidays) is hardly

> > perpetuating a religious doctrine. If anything, this

> > information helps us to understand different

> > religions, and understand the cultural backdrops of

> > our learners. There have been questions about Persian

> > (Irani) New Year, Diwali, and for those who have Hindu

> > students, Ganesh Chaturathi (the festival of the god

> > Ganesh) started yesterday.

> >

> > Diversity is not just having a multi-ethnic meal and

> > simplistic multicultural parties. It is about learning

> > in-depth and in a profound manner. I am curious how

> > this explanation was perceived as a means to circulate

> > religious doctrine.

> >

> > With best wishes,

> > Ujwala Samant

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > --- Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> wrote:

> >

> >> I am surprised that no one has yet commented on the

> >> propriety of using a government listserve to

> >> circulate religious doctrine.

> >>

> >> Has The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List now

> >> become a vehicle for promoting religious

> >> holidays and disseminating prayers?

> >>

> >>

> >>  Regards,

> >>

> >> Kearney Lykins

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> ----- Original Message ----

> >> From: Ochieng kh <ochykheyr at yahoo.com>

> >> To: The Diversity and Literacy Discussion List

> >> <diversity at nifl.gov>

> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 2, 2008 10:02:45 AM

> >> Subject: [Diversity 129] Ramadhan Kareem

> >>

> >>

> >> Dear All,

> >> Many of you have Muslim students who are celebrating

> >> the blessed month of Ramadhan. I would like to wish

> >> them Ramadhan kareem. It is a month of deep

> >> reflection and self-restraint while praying for

> >> spiritual purity, good tidings and endless bounties.

> >>

> >>

> >> It is a blessed opportunity to reflect upon and

> >> grapple with the issues that afflict the souls of

> >> not only the Muslim ummah but the greater creation

> >> of Allah (SWT).

> >>

> >> It is also the time to ponder and generate solutions

> >> to such issues as injustices, inequality, wrongs

> >> visited upon the poor and vulnerable, unity of the

> >> ummah, corruption, leadership, marginalization,

> >> environment, prejudices and stereotypes, etc.

> >>

> >> Ramadhan is an important month of Patience, sharing

> >> and selflessness and a time to seek the mercy and

> >> forgiveness from Allah (SWT)

> >>

> >> May Allah (SWT) grant all of us us the

> >> ibadah(devotion) of the night of Qadr(blessed night)

> >> and make us the best ummah.

> >> RAMADHAN KAREEM

> >> Ochieng M.Khairallah

> >>

> >>

> >>      >

> > ----------------------------------------------------

> >> National Institute for Literacy

> >> Diversity and Literacy mailing list

> >> Diversity at nifl.gov

> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,

> >> please go to

> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------

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> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------

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> >

>

>

>

> --

> Elaine Zundl

> Department of Women's and Gender Studies

> Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Diversity and Literacy mailing list

> Diversity at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to  

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/diversity

>

>

>

> -- 

> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt

> www.LuxuriousChoices.net

>

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