Return-Path: <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id i4OKxNm25511; Mon, 24 May 2004 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <004301c441d2$ff5cdcb0$6701a8c0@gx200> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: <lloyd_david@ceilearn.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3245] Re: [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for Program X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 8419 Lines: 210 David, I know that Microsoft has programs that certify a person's knowledge in certain MS programs. These tests are difficult to pass but do assess whether a person is competent in that activity. I believe that we have to begin to look at information technology as a literacy requirement. I want to describe a program which CEI is offering to residents of 2 public housing developments in Worcester, MA. CEI provides classes that teach information technology, ESOL, and literacy skills simultaneously. One cannot learn to perform word processing skills without knowing how to read/write. MS Office suite of applications provide rich tools to help students of English organize vocabulary, phrases and grammar rules. The Internet provides excellent tools for grammar rules. language translation and interactivity. Computer literacy is more than merely knowing how to use one's fingers. In fact with wireless skills one does not even need to know how to use a keyboard. Reading and writing using the internet is becoming as important as using a library. Look at what we are doing now! Members of my staff ,who grew up using the computer in school, when asked a simple question such as help in finding a telephone number or an address immediately go to the internet and not to 411. Why should adults who are in basic literacy classes be considered less worthy of getting instant access to this kind of knowledge? Lloyd David, EdD. President/Executive Director Continuing Education Institute/CEI 108 Water Street Watertown, MA 02472 617-926-1864 617-926-1865 (FAX) lloyd_david@ceilearn.com www.ceilearn.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Rosen" <djrosen@comcast.net> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3244] Re: [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for Program > Hello Robert, > > I agree that reading, writing and numeracy are usually much more > important than computer skills because, as you have argued, they are > fundamental skills and processes on which so many others may be built. > My point was that students consider computer skills as important, and > they are increasingly needed for work. I know students who, with basic > computer skills, have been able to get jobs that enable them to live > and pursue a secondary level credential and post-secondary education. > Perhaps, for them, the computer skills are fundamental to enable them > to get secondary level skills. > > And here's something else to think about. Recently at the Florida > Literacy Coalition annual conference I was privileged to hear a judge > speak about how he re-discovered the importance of literacy to his life > and work when suddenly and unexpectedly he became blind. A social > worker pointed out to him that unless he learned to read Braile and/or > use his computer to read text he would be illiterate. In this case, > the computer skills might be fundamental to continued literacy. > > All the best, > > David J. Rosen > djrosen@comcast.net > > On Sunday, May 23, 2004, at 03:59 PM, Robert Runyon wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > David Rosen > > > > Your postings are usually so congent and insightful, I am > > reluctant > > to post a disagreement to your latest one. But I will do so, if only > > to > > clarify a diverging position. > > I must first affirm, my basic agreement with the importance of > > computer literacy, and the growing importance of computer-assisted > > instruction, especially for adult education. > > HOWEVER, I must humbly disagree with your suggestion (below) that > > computer manipulative skills are (or getting to be) as fundamental or > > essential as reading, writing and numeracy to the person (adult or > > child). > > I believe that the aforementioned skills are fundamental language, > > thought > > and communication processes that are essential to our humaness and > > participation in civilized society. To use an admittedly outdated > > (and now > > discredited) analogy, I regard them like the "faculties" of the mind, > > once > > thought to be the essential to a liberal education in college. I'm not > > suggesting we go back to the Latin trivium (whatever that was). But, > > I do > > offer the assertion that learning the relationships between basic > > letter/number symbols, sounds and meanings is part of basic brain > > development in children (early synapses), and probably something that > > has > > to be re-learned (new synapses) by adults who missed it in school. > > I readily concede that computer literacy and manipulative skills > > are > > worthwhile and important. But, in my view, they represent a > > rudimentary > > coupling of kinesthetic and perceptual skills that have little to do > > with > > the development of judgement or of a self-reflective entity called > > MIND. I > > would grant that most literacy tutors are (appropriately, I think) > > focused > > on micro aspects of language, but these are skills that pave new > > pathways > > for feeling, thought and independent mind power. At the very least, > > they > > open up the mind to the realm of history and the recorded thoughts of > > other > > minds. Without reading smarts, can computer skills do that? > > I regard computer processes, on the other hand, as temporary, > > evolving, non-stable procedures for man-machine interaction. The > > judgement > > required to make appropriate choices and selections within digital > > junkpiles is something way beyond mouse skills, URL's and media > > smarts. I > > guess it follows, that I question the value of anything beyond the most > > rudimentary NRS report data on "computer literacy." > > > > I could go on, but will not. I hope this "opinion" contributes > > to > > some active discussion among list participants. > > > > Robert S. Runyon > > Literacy Center for the Midlands (www.midlandsliteracy.org) > > Omaha, NE > > rrunyon@mail.unomaha.edu > > > > > > > > > > David Rosen > > <djrosen@comcast. > > net> > > To > > Sent by: Multiple recipients of list > > nifl-technology@n > > <nifl-technology@literacy.nifl.gov> > > ifl.gov > > cc > > > > > > Subject > > 05/23/04 12:39 PM [NIFL-TECHNOLOGY:3241] Re: > > [NIFL-PLI] Using NRS Data for > > Program Improvement > > Please respond to > > nifl-technology@n > > ifl.gov > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Larry Condelli: > > > > Sandy Strunk posted a message to the NIFL-PLI list on May 10, 2004 > > from Larry Condelli, Managing Director in the Education and Human > > Development Division of the American Institues for Research, leader of > > the adult education team, and project director for the National > > Reporting System, in which Larry asks: > > > > "What data do you need that NRS does not collect?" > > > > The context of this and other questions in that message was using data > > for program improvement. > > > > I have recently been asked by a practitioner -- and not for the first > > time -- if there are valid and reliable assessments for measuring > > computer literacy -- that is, basic computer competence and comfort. > > These are skills needed to use computer-assisted instruction, to word > > process writing and to search for information on a CD or on the Web. > > > > My understanding -- Larry please correct me I am wrong -- is that > > computer literacy is not an area which is ow measured through the NRS. > > If it were, I am not sure we have valid, reliable, standardized > > assessments. Do we? > > > > Yet, I would argue that these skills are now as important to adult > > learners as reading, writing and numeracy. They are required for many > > jobs, and for participation in computer-based distance learning. Many > > programs offer these skills because students have asked to learn them. > > Programs, students, and employers wonder how programs are doing in > > helping students learn these skills. > > > > Can the NRS include these skills? > > > > David J. Rosen > > djrosen@comcast.net > > > > > > On Monday, May 10, 2004, at 10:59 AM, Sandy Strunk wrote: > > > >> > >> What data do you need that NRS does not collect? > > > > > > > > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Dec 23 2004 - 09:48:04 EST